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ash Member
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Maan, what a team player, what a captain  ...@Trini Guardian AS captain of the West Indies cricket team, and as an individual who has his own personal life and reputation to be concerned about, I am naturally very worried with the negative cloud that hangs over West Indies cricket at the moment, especially as the South Africans arrive in the Caribbean in three weeks’ time. People everywhere, in all walks of life, keep telling me: “Brian, DO something,” and I agonise over what exactly I can do to ease the situation. Believe me, if anyone can show me the solution and I felt I could influence a major change, I would respond like a shot. There are five parties directly involved in the overall problem: (1) WICB; (2) Digicel; (3) the players themselves, including me; (4) C&W and (5) WIPA. But this is not simply a regional cricket problem. It involves governments, economics and the opinions and judgments of the cricket world at large; to say nothing about shifting much-needed energy, attention and focus away from World Cup 2007. The effects are both immediate and far-reaching if we do not find a way to go forward immediately. Brian Lara does not have the answer for all other parties, but it seems to me that the solution lies in a willingness to communicate professionally with a philosophy of “give and take.” The time has long passed where any one party can say: “I am only taking and not giving.” We all have to admit that in everyday life, we do and say things that we would do and say differently, if we had another chance. I suggest a lot of sincere apologies—private apologies—would pave that way forward, and once an apology is offered, let the issue be dropped once and for all. If it is felt that I owe someone an apology, even if, maybe I feel I was right, let me try to understand the other point of view and apologise for the negative perception created. The same for every one involved. What has happened has happened. We cannot rewrite history, but we can learn from it. Seldom is one party 100 per cent correct and the other 0 per cent. Even 99 per cent to one per cent opens the door for dialogue and as we know, “dialogue is miraculous.” When people talk, miracles happen; when they do not talk, then the world has to guess and they often guess wrong. It is possible that because I am the WI captain, because I was appointed and am employed by WICB; because I am sponsored as a player by Digicel; because I am sponsored as a private individual by C&W; and because I am a member of WIPA that my multi-faceted role may allow me the privilege of opening a door or two, even if slightly. I am more than willing to do this if called upon by any or all the participating parties. If I can help, I am prepared to speak to anyone, anywhere and at any time, but I suggest with respect, that positive action is needed NOW. Time is not on our side and hatchets have to be buried with haste if, indeed, there are hatchets to be buried. Let us sit and dialogue with goodwill and sensitivity and generosity of thought. Let us admit there is something called “another point of view,” which deserves respect and should be listened to, even if we disagree. If someone is proven wrong, let us create a back door for him so he can exit with dignity; because if there is no back door, his only course is to fight back. Let us not delight in making others squirm by humiliating or embarrassing them in public. Let us do everything to create a win/win situation and prevent a lose/lose situation. In my frank opinion, it will be one of the two. I do not think a win/lose result will go down well. I have one last request, namely that the media and the public understand that what has to take place will do so in gradual steps. Let us not expect overnight results, but aim for overnight progress. One step forward every day will get us there eventually. One step forward and two steps backward is not the way to go. Let every one of every religion pray that the parties are granted the wisdom, strength and courage to do what is best for cricket and the Caribbean people. Thank you. Long live Lara  Last edited on Sun Mar 6th, 2005 10:30 am by ash |
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Uncle Member
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"If someone is proven wrong, let us create a back door for him so he can exit with dignity; because if there is no back door, his only course is to fight back." Nice! |
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ash Member
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Sun Tzu says something very similar in the 'Art of War'.. Lara's a very smart man |
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mapoui Member
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ash wrote:Sun Tzu says something very similar in the 'Art of War'.. Sun Tsu sure, but the concept is originally African as all things- 'Out of Africa' is not a basic world phrase for nothing: In war cut off an army on 3 side but leave the fourth open. You would want the same for you in time. I expected nothing less from Lara. I maintain BCL is no saint! But who is? It is if we can find the practical and useful in ourselves when most needed generally, and made available generally that is a test of a human being. I am absolutely confident that at all imes in all and any crisis that Lara may be involved in he will not let down. That I would take to the bank as a gurantee, for there is little I could be more sure off. it is of the same piece and spirit of Lara walking when he knows he is out, rather than waiting for the upmire. BCL has been capable of large things, both great and slack in his life. As he has grown older the imbalance has tilted towards responsibility. Brian Charles Lara is human, a 'large' one, one of our best,all things considered. As westindies cappo Lara has not been Clive Lloyd or Frank Worrell..perhaps the types of leader we need at this desperate stage of our development. But conditions have not been conducive to bringing out the best in any leader westindes have had over the past 10-15 years... a period which coincides with the rise of the westindies bureaucratic elite to administrative prominence in the region. This elite does not own things in the region.. the commanding heights of the economy... but run things in the name of those who do...an extra regional power...do 'thei' bidding with a subservience and loyalty that is as complete as it is pathetic, a disgusting sore on the westindian social body, that can only be healed by a rise of the westindian people to cleanse its body of this offending abomination. This westindian elite is a spectre in the world, a pappyshow, a so-called elite whose social position rests entirely on those who exploit their own home and people. They do not actually own and control a damm thing in the region. This westindian elite never sought to own anything and so control, with a security for their own material well being. Riding the backs of the westindian people who, led by their great ordinary sons such as Eric Williams in his early incarnation, this class of westindins used political independence to accomadate themselves to the old master,curring favor for administartive perks and material crumbs, rather than working with the westindian people to own, unify and run the region in our own name, interests and cultural likeness, ethnically varigated as it is. The westindian elite is the one great shame of the westindies,our signal failure..not the people in their induced poverty. It is a section of this elite who have brought westindies cricket to this current degraded pass. They who feel they have lived and live honourable lives but which life even cursory examination proves to be an empty, hypocritical shell. It is time for the westindian ordinary massive to get serious about its reality and take the necssary steps to ensure themselves a real chance in life, to try to secure a future for themselves and the region...for as things stand it is clear there is no such possibility for security of life,led by those who now lead us in all that we do...cricket not excepted. Last edited on Sun Mar 6th, 2005 01:47 pm by mapoui |
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Maple Leaf Member
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Perhaps Lara is as smart and a team man as you say he is but no where in the article do I see a reference about the "others". Perhaps, the others rejected Lara's request for a joint statement. Because leaders lead and do not act alone or only look out for his own self interest. If they are now left out in the cold to fend for themselves, it serves them right for rejecting this great man and leader. If one was to give an opinion on Lara's public life, Lara the conciliator does not come to mind or backing off for that matter. There are many events/incidents to chose from but lets take only the Dillon fiasco in SA. It is now clear that Lara wanted Dillon to play in the test but was unsuccessful in getting the selection panel to go along with him so what did he do? He went behind their backs and inserted Dillion's name in the squad - acting unilaterlly. What does that say about Lara the person? Does Lara go along with the majority? Or does Lara only care about what Lara wants and about what is good for Lara. So here are, we have Lara's statement reaching out. The question is why? Has Lara seen the writing on the wall and has decided to pull a Lara? Is this an attempt to save his captaincy? I believe so and if Lara did not consult Gayle, Bravo, Edwards and the others, it is Lara at his best. Say it isn't so Brian. |
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ash Member
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Lara is speaking as an individual and as the West Indian captain. All he is saying is; lets compromise, lets not let egos get in the way, I am willing to apologise. Why exactly does he need to consult with any of his team mates? Would they disagree with any of the expressed sentiments? |
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Maple Leaf Member
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ash wrote: Lara is speaking as an individual and as the West Indian captain. Go back and read what I wrote. Besides Lara is not the captain until he is reappointed by the WICB at the begining of the home series. |
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ash Member
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Go back and read what *I* wrote Forget about the details, Lara says 'As the West Indian captain' - thus he's speaking AS the WI captain. I'll say again, his statement is not saying anything that requires any degree of consultation w/ other players. In any case, there is no way any of what he said is in conflict with their views. |
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Calypso Moderator
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Maple Leaf wrote: So here are, we have Lara's statement reaching out. The question is why? Has Lara seen the writing on the wall and has decided to pull a Lara? Is this an attempt to save his captaincy? I believe so and if Lara did not consult Gayle, Bravo, Edwards and the others, it is Lara at his best. Say it isn't so Brian.If this is an honest to goodness statement by Lara then very commendable. However, Lara is so very good at using the press (no he excels at using the media especially in the Caribbean) - for his own means and motives that I have long become very wary of these 'well timed' press releases. ............. and yes I believe it is an attempt to save his captaincy |
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mapoui Member
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Maple Leaf wrote:Perhaps Lara is as smart and a team man as you say he is but no where in the article do I see a reference about the "others". Perhaps, the others rejected Lara's request for a joint statement. Because leaders lead and do not act alone or only look out for his own self interest. If they are now left out in the cold to fend for themselves, it serves them right for rejecting this great man and leader. Your ability is clear and you can select any one aspect of anyonesb life I suspect, and make a capital case negative or positive or just plain neutral. Now if you were honest how many of Shives gaffes can be used to make capital cases against him, individually singled out and built accordingly? Name the person and start building cases! But the overall picture ofers greater opportunity to gain insight into the true character of any person condsidered not so? In such consideration Brian Charles Lara comes out as I have described him. So considered Shive Chanderpaul also comes out the whole person that he is, both good and bad and which aspect of his nature dominate - doominates at anytime in his life, relative to the conditions of survival that demands succesful response from him, on any day, so that he may continue living. The normal challenging conditions of existence which tend to compromise everyone are suspended when EIRM considers Lara. Yet EIRM demnds the very same wide based consideration of their own favourites? You reduce Lara to individual acts around which you build a very negative case. Can you find one 'good' thing about Lara to build a case in which you must come to an opposite conclusion? The fact of the matter is as I have said many times... lara is westindian, flawed but wholly human...and as westindian ought to be accepted fully first on that basis alone, and considered not with hate, contempt and dismissal but as we consider any human being we 'include' But lara is not'included' by EIRM. He is on the out, a figure of disdparagement and contempt.... and that is unacceptable. Nothing you have said maple leaf convinces to the contrary. That very same limited, EIRMITE contempt for Lara is as evident as ever in your reply above. Also go through westindian cricket history...stick to the test period 1928- on...and see how many eggregious cappo acts that have taken place equal to and worse than lara's so-called unilateralism in the Dillon affair in RSA. If lara's act is in fact what you say it is, it ought to be without preceedent. But it is not without preceedent is it? And hypothesise for me will you maple leaf! Suppose it was Shive as captain making such an alleged impromptu decision with regards to a GT player for eg, what would your response be? Last edited on Sun Mar 6th, 2005 02:40 pm by mapoui |
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mapoui Member
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Calypso wrote:Maple Leaf wrote:So here are, we have Lara's statement reaching out. The question is why? Has Lara seen the writing on the wall and has decided to pull a Lara? Is this an attempt to save his captaincy? I believe so and if Lara did not consult Gayle, Bravo, Edwards and the others, it is Lara at his best. Say it isn't so Brian.If this is an honest to goodness statement by Lara then very commendable. However, Lara is so very good at using the press (no he excels at using the media especially in the Caribbean) - for his own means and motives that I have long become very wary of these 'well timed' press releases. ............. and yes I believe it is an attempt to save his captaincy And if it is an attempt to save his captaincy what pray tell is wrong,evil about that? The implication is that lara as leader has been evil, that he should burn in the fires of hell, and that it is extremely sinful and selfish for him to try and save that leadership! that is ridiculous! Why when lara acts he is termed selfish by all those I consider EIRMITE? That is an even more ridiculous conception because not that Lara is not selfish indeed..but because he is selfish....self-interestd more accurate discription. But who can be otherwise in their life and actions in the conditions in which humans live? Isnt it that the conditions we are born into as INDIVIDUALS... SEPERATE AND INSECURE,HAVING TO EARN THE BREAD BY WHICH WE LIVE, THE PRODUCTION OF WHICH DEPENDS ON EXTERNAL CONDITIONS CHANGING FROM DAY TO DAY...CONDITIONS WE CANNOT SATBILIZE IN WAYS WE WOULDLIKE AND NEED TO MAKE SURE THE RAIN WILL FALL ETC, FOR EG GURANTEE IN BREAD TOMORROW ANDINTO THE EXTENDED FUTURE..determinant of the human character? Doesnt these actual conditions of life demand ego and self confidence of individuals, that their purpose in life be directed by self-interest, be identical with it self-interest, and so take care of themselves, not leaving that responsibility to others? And isnt that what EIRN attack blac people for...as lazy and dependant..implicationsat least, noted in Stevies recent comments on the situation in Kenya? So why the fact then the attack on Lara for what is ABSOLUTELY NORMAL BEHAVIOUR AS DETERMINED BY THE VERY CONDITIONS OF EXISTENCE? Now if a man is attacked for normal behaviour by people who attack those like him also for for the lack of that normal behaviour, what must the natural conclusion be then.... that the attacked people can do nothing right for those attacking them, for they are condemmned if they do and if they do not! So such as lara then can do no right as far as EIRM is concerned! What is that then if that not hate... ethnic hate? Somebody tell me different will youse!!!! Please! Last edited on Sun Mar 6th, 2005 03:20 pm by mapoui |
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Maple Leaf Member
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Maps, We are not talking about Shiv or anyone else. I would hope that I will be objective in assessing Shiv as I am with Lara. For instance, I blame publicly for WI failure to reach the final in the recent VB series. He did not and far too often Shiv does not and he has to improve in that area. It is a flaw. Shiv has to be more selfish in his batting and just add his 50 plus to the team essfort but must bring home the baco more often. Now back to Lara. The truth is Lara is the greatest batsman the WI have produced and I could go on and on but the problem I have with Lara is with his leadership style, skills and his relationship with others. To be sure Lara is loyal to his friends and I as understand includes many individuals of East Indian decent. So I am not accusing Lara of racial bias - I would never do so. But please do not stand in the way of what he wants. The method he uses to get what he wants is legendary. If Lara was a great or very good captain none of this would really matter but he is not. EIRM pushes for more Indian players (but not at the expense of talent and production) - so what ? Every region in the Caribbean promotes its own and some do it much more aggresively than EIRM. Sadly racial bias is a fact of life in the Carribbean as it is else where. We are not the exception. Look Lara is a very poor captain and I believe if a Jacobs or Gayle were to replace Lara not much fuss would be made. The fact that Chandepaul or Sarwan is next in line creates a racial situation. So I wish to say my oppostion to Lara continuing as captain is based on his poor record in that department notwithstanding the poor crop of players available for selection. A good captain though would make better use of the resources avaibable to him. |
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Karpov2 Member
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mappy; ERIM, SHIV??? you are getting more ridiculous...deal with the real issues. |
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Plato Member 
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Lara is a master politician and can see the pendulum swinging. Very bright guy. |
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mapoui Member
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Maple Leaf wrote:Maps, We are not talking about Shiv or anyone else. I would hope that I will be objective in assessing Shiv as I am with Lara. For instance, I blame publicly for WI failure to reach the final in the recent VB series. |
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mapoui Member
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Communication is effectively transmitting meaning! You know exactly what I mean! |
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Maple Leaf Member
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Maps you have said I am getting closer to being West Indian, well thanks. How about you though? You make your points based mainly that EIRM is the problem it would seem the only problem. But is that so" There are many in the Caribbean who wants minimum representation of East Indian in WI cricket. So if you should also condemn those people as well but EIRM only gets the brunt of your attact. On a larger scale what was Martin Luther King saying about equal representation for blacks and other monorities in the US? To paraphase the great man "the content of your ability matters not the colour of your skin" In the case of the Caribbean people read "shade". So Maps, now it is up to you to move closer to the cause of social justice, admit that there are many folks here in the Carribbean who wants a quota for Indians or to limit their participation in the WI team If you and enough people do so there will be no need for EIRM. Until then, we in deh rass. We won't go away. We areWest Indians too and love the West Indies team as you do. So we are entitled to have our qualified players on the team and yes, to lead at the appropriate times. |
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sir bim Member
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I hope he not backing down, if its a principal worth fighting, fight it and be damned. Or shut ta fact up follow sheep and seh yes sah. |
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StevieC Admin 
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I take one facting weekend off for a wedding and this happens! somebady please call 911.. the mona witch must be crying a lot of crocodile tears they should bring Lara, Onry, Sarwan etc back.. WI cricket is nothing without them But Lara should be DROPPED as cappo..plain and simple.. he just doesn't have it in him to LEAD men into battle... he too preoccupied with himself... with selling the Lara product... not too interested in WI CRICKET as a whole... if Sarwan can be dropped from the VC, then Lara can be dropped as Captain... wait, wait, wait a sec.. this is the WI we're talking about... logic wouldd't fly here.. nevermind.. |
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sir bim Member
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Losing 0-3 at home to hinglan was a sacking offence, he should be sacked for being a shyte captain simple. Shiv's captaincy should not be tainted, A crowning in these circumstances makes him a hated dead duck cappo before he starts, sanity must prevail. |
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mapoui Member
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Maple Leaf wrote:Maps you have said I am getting closer to being West Indian, well thanks. How about you though? You make your points based mainly that EIRM is the problem it would seem the only problem. But is that so" this opinion makes sense only to people who are not familiar with me over the year or so I have been posting away on WCF. Go back maple leaf and see how much of what you accuse me of is actually represented in what I have said all along. Then compare what you find to dp, Rev and several others over on your side and see how I come out...and they too. Then tell me who is iniator, instigator of opinion such as mine recently on WCF. The archives are all yours! Last edited on Sun Mar 6th, 2005 07:52 pm by mapoui |
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StevieC Admin
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Yeah Sir Bim.. Lara was loved as Cappo for fukin up WI cricket right? Viv and Llyod were given the job after QUITTING on WI cricket for the WHITE MAN's money and it was ok then right? Leave Shiv's name out of this.. he's not making moolahs of dinero on the side.. he's investing in fishing, a restaurant chain and real-estate.. two of which are in the WI.. so he's putting back into the region... he doesn't need to double cross the board for a few bucks... |
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mapoui Member
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everybody on WCF now is an defensive mode Mapleleaf. somebody had to have been attacking to force others to defend themselves. Again the archives are there to determine who are the aggressive and who defensive. I have been calling for the westindian,nationalist position to be imbibed by everyone as a basis for for generalised as opposed to polarised debate. Take your eg of some westindians above satisfied with and determined to maintian minimum Indian representation....how have you arrived at such a set opinion? Where is your proof? The question that arises about you immediately is how facting old are you? Reason.... you could not have lived for 50+ years in the westindies and be as rabid as that about what you say. Somebody taught you that oopinion and you have not sought to verify its validity. Well it contains hardly an, if any, validiy at all. The various parts of the westindian ethnic mix have a long-standing realtionship obviously, that is not narrow at all as your sense and tense implies you believe. You have alot of work to do in getting to know your westindies. To do so you must leave the narrow straight-jacket confines of Eirm and forge into the wider westindies and his history up to now. Fortunately for you you seem to have ability enough to do a good learning job. Move man! There is a lot to learn that will suprise and broaden you. On the way you may be able to help your friends on this mb to broaden themselves and so learn to live too as part of something rather than seeking to be apart and superior, and overlord. |
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mapoui Member
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StevieC wrote:Yeah Sir Bim.. Lara was loved as Cappo for fukin up WI cricket right? |
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WIFanatic Member
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WHATAX!!!!!! Uncle I like dat backdoor thing as well!!!! Well everybody is talking ..... but alas NOT to each other!!!!! |
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Maple Leaf Member
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Ok Maps, a simple yes would have suffice. Instead you ask me to reaearch your past postings. Well we will agree to disagree. I believe there are folks in the Caribbean who would rather see less indians on the WI team and you say it is all in our imagination. Just as it was in Marthur Luther King's head only. And we in EIRM are to blame because we too sensitive. The bias nah real man, we only think it is. |
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dp Member 
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Auyh really stupid to think is Lara speaking! Auyh not understand Lara got a young brilliant Indian Lawyer and close confidant on his side> |
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mapoui Member
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Maple Leaf wrote:Ok Maps, a simple yes would have suffice. Instead you ask me to reaearch your past postings. My take is that you cannot prove that sentimentin any way. I say ok anyhow, you are right there are such people. But what is their influence? have you been following westindies cricket for 45 years? There was a time when Indian did not care about westindies cricket and had no role in the formation of the administrative house of the gamein the region. As Nauipaul and CLR will tell you Indians thought they had more important things to accomplish, like laying a basis for comunity long term survival. Indian build-up to today was focused on the village and a type of village head-man politics that has given rise to the type of politics engaged in currently but obviously evolving as events in TnT prove. These are Naipauls words not mine. Then there was an interim period I would say 1957 when I began to be conscious of it to about 1980 during which Indians openly sided against the westindies...to today when avid participation is sought. Indians now have economic power, are freeing themselves of the village and now seek full participation in our major representative game. The question has been asked is it normal, natural participartion Indinas now want, as part of the the westindian comunity...or do they view the regional cricket tean as an area of conquest? You see mapleleaf I grew up in Tnt and I know of what I speak. I lived cricket, spoke it, ate it,read it from cover to cover and start afresh again. I am being fully honest here: I never saw,or proved, or noticed, or observed any racism from west-Afros towards players of Indian descent. And if by chance there was racism in selection how can itbelaid at our door when Afros had no control of westindies cricket until 10-15 yrear ago. Up till then westindies cricket was controlled by the white and near white westindian comunity...the most powerful of comunities in the region. If here was selectoral chicanery against Indians lay it at the door of the Grants and Sir Errol Dos Santos goingback as far as I am conscious of...through to Gomez, Stollmeye and Rae, at the door of Steve Comacho...butnot at the at our door. But again I maintain...there has been no anti-Indian bias a in selection of westindies teams. Indians moved straight from anti-westindianism in cricket to accusation of bias in selection toward Indians, and demands for selection of any number of players. Is it a truism that the number of Indian players of class has beenless than that of the westindian white and African communities? Isnt also true that the flow of Indians into the game in quantity is recent phenommena, due the the economic succeess of theIndiancomunity....and because of this fact any sustained flow of Indian players of class is a thing to come and was not a fact of the past? If you have the ability maple leaf and you have youth on your side, do the research and write an honest book. Make reputation and money for yourself in the process. |
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